DFK Discord Problems and Issues

Hello,

there is no doubt or disagreement that DFK’s discord is the first experience of a new investor (player) considering getting into DFK. We’ve been asked countless times on DFK AMAs to “look our best” when the team is on an expedition (conferences), to create a welcoming and positive environment for the new users onboarding.

I would now like to draw your attention to the problems of DFK’s Discord and how it is anything but a welcoming or positive experience for new, current or past members.

DFK’s Discord is practically abandoned unmoderated and fast declining. Let’s see why.

DFK’s Discord is Abandoned

Discord servers are a living, breathing thing. They develop around the community’s needs and reflect the community’s sentiment: how the community evolves, how it grows, and where the moderators (DFK Team) want to drive the community. Things are tried out, and tested, what works is reinforced, and what doesn’t work is discarded. That is how actively moderated discord servers operate, they are on top of the pulse of the community.

That is what would be expected from any successful community on discord, and DFK is no exception

However, what is happening with DFK’s discord is quite the opposite. Channel structure has remained stale, and working or not working channels are still there. To say it another way, no significant change has happened on DFK’s Discord since February of 2022.

In addition, look at the User Count as are available on the “Server Stats” of DFK’s Discord:

  • Total Members: 86.1k
  • Online Members: 14.3k

Those, 70k odd users that are “not online”, haven’t gone for a drink or a walk. They are bots that have been banned by discord, never to come back. Yet, no one from DFK’s Discord leadership has bothered figuring out one of the many ways to clean those “dead bots” out of DFK’s server.

DFK Discord in Unmoderated

I’ve spent an average of 16 hours a day, for a period of 4 to 5 months on DFK’s discord. It was to my surprise and disappointment that I concluded that DFK’s Discord is effectively unmoderated.

Let’s start with the fact that there is no code of conduct (CoC). There are rules, which naturally have the boilerplate “respect each other”, but that is a completely different thing.

Rules dictate the general framework that users need to comply with, in the server, a CoC lays out the exact way users should engage with each other.

The biggest problem is that even the rules that do exist are never actually enforced. There is a small minority of users that persistently breaks those rules in all sorts of ways, with moderators present, and no action at all is taken.

I will analyze the 3 biggest and most popular channels on DFK Discord: #general, #price-discussion, and #hero-discussion, and walk through each one of them and the problems they have from lack of moderation.

No Moderation: The case of General

“I’ve left #general since early this year”, was a quote I heard a fellow old-time player say when I brought up the subject of the situation on the #general channel. And that, we will see, is the general trend across all three major channels of DFK.

Lack of moderation pushes the moderates and non-confrontational people away from DFK’s Discord. But what happens on #general that is so bad?

Well, #general is now meme-central. It is a place where a certain, large group of players congregate to have fun, pass their time and enjoy worshiping their one true devotion: Kirby Feet:

The users that frequent there, including several moderators, have reached such a high degree of comradery, that it is impossible to catch their tune or be able to meaningfully participate. If such a thing exists, when everything that happens is a continuous stream of gifs and memes.

To the uninitiated, #general is an incomprehensible stream of non-sensical text and animated pictures, scrolling with extreme speed regardless of the high slow-mode enforced on the channel.

This isn’t a recent development. These kinds of behaviors were cultivated by moderators who run all sorts of games, jewel drops (rains), and molded #general to the form it is today. The stream of non-sensical text and memes was even worst at the high times of DeFi Kingdoms when even a 10-minute slow-mode wouldn’t deter the phenomenon.

Please don’t get me wrong here, I enjoy, applaud, and am happy for the kind of relationships that have been developed. It is a wonderful thing and very much fun for many users as well as a good pastime and community exercise.

However, I am worried, that this might not be the right kind of image we want to display to new users. Both from the fact that it’s incomprehensible to the uninitiated and more importantly, that a new user is at a loss when encountering #general.

When new users come in #general and ask valid, newbie, gameplay questions, it is more likely than not that those questions get lost in the mindless stream of kirby feet.

What makes a bad situation even worse, is that you get to have the top DFK executives, like Frisky, Bolon, Hubert, or designers, dropping alpha and holding impromptu AMAs on #general. This means, that now a player that needs to stay on top of DFK alpha and information has to also monitor #general.

Have we considered these problems?

Is that what we want new users to experience for their first time on DFK’s Discord?

Are we helping new users onboard and feel welcomed?

Before jumping into answering those questions, here is a suggestion: Each one of us, grab a new user that we’ve seen joined the server, and ask them. It is their opinion we care about after all.

No Moderation: The case of Hero Discussion (HD)

We see on a nearly daily basis, that certain users pick fights with any other random user for completely insignificant reasons or simply because they have a difference of opinion. We see threats being made toward other users. We see them make disparaging comments about other players or groups of players, completely unprovoked and unprompted. We see the same users then acting as moderators, warning other users to behave. Not only that is not their place, but they do not do it respectfully and mindfully. Which would allow the other party to understand their mistake. What happens instead, is that most of the time, they trigger a reaction that feeds back to the vicious cycle these users thrive on.

And the most ironic of all circumstances, we see those same troublemaking users call on moderators to solve the quarrels that they have created. And here’s the saddest part of things: “drive-by moderators” respond to the ping, and never bother to see, ask for, or investigate the context under which they were called. They’ll just use their blunt “warning” or “timeout” tools so they can get a quick resolution and continue on their merry way with whatever they were busy with before getting pinged.

These users have completely consumed and dominated HD, thwarting any sensible or moderate voice from that channel. The kind of tragic-comic situation that is going on in HD, has become the biggest joke amongst the DFK community at large.

So much so that if you watch close enough, you will even see a rivalry between #hero-discussion and #price-discussion (PD). The PD folks joke about the situation on HD, while the HD folks are hating on the PD folks. Here are some relevant quotes, from HD folks, to get a better understanding of what I mean:

PD is bad, but better for that stuff; nuanced but important distinction

Yet, interestingly, no one ever says what a nice place PD is

There is so much PD misunderstands or misrepresents, one can’t even begin to address it all

As many times as these issues have been raised throughout the entire chain of command of moderators, no significant outcomes or improvement has happened. The entire body of the DFK Team is at this point well informed about the situation, down to a very detailed degree. So, at this point, after all this time, one can safely conclude that moderators, knights, and the DFK Team have become completely numb to acts of disparagement, sexism, hate speech, and even bigotry.

No Moderation: The case of Price Discussion (PD)

Contrary to common belief, #price-discussion has been fairing better than the other two counterparts. Yes, it can become rough sometimes, but ever since moderators got authorized to use force at their discretion against FUDers, the order is kept and one can get to view or participate in meaningful conversations and respectful debates.

As a matter of fact, PD, is now considered by most that frequent that channel “the new general”. Where sensible discourse happens and everyone treats each other with respect and appreciation. And based on what I have experienced there in the past many weeks, I agree with that sentiment.

Price discussion had its dark days, especially during the coordinated FUD campaign of April 2022. So the current state of PD, can largely be attributed to that event and the decisions that were made at the time to clamp down on FUDers and allocate permanent moderating resources to this channel. I will expand a bit more on this a bit further down.

At this point, however, I have to commend the work of Moderator @Kujo, who is the only moderator that actively performs the duties of a moderator in the full sense. Not just doing drive-by moderation, but engaging with the users, making an effort to understand the nuances and context behind each case and always applying the appropriate amount of direction to remedy the situation, and only in extreme circumstances resort to using the right amount of force.

The “Take No Action Policy”

As mentioned above, the coordinated FUD attack was a catalyst for the improvement of PD, and the reason was that for the first time, Moderators were authorized to ban users.

This authorization, however, happened only after 2 days of continuous “attacks” against DFK that were going on in PD. Delivered by new users joining (most likely alternative accounts of the bad actors) who spread baseless accusations, fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the project. During those 2 agonizing days, DFK lost 56% of its market cap.

It took 2 days for the DFK Team to realize the damage that was happening. The fact that part of the FUD campaign was happening on their very own discord, and finally to decide to allow moderators to ban the instigators.

Based on these events and in combination with what is happening on the three biggest channels, we can safely draw a few conclusions:

  • Moderators are not empowered to take their own initiative when it comes to moderation.
  • There is a “stand-down” policy that does not allow Moderators to effectively moderate.
  • There are no “moderation or community policies” that moderators have to reinforce and steer the community to.
  • DFK Team has a very centralized, top-down chain of command.
  • Consequently, trust is eroded or non-existent in the relationships between DFK Admin and Moderators (i.e. “I do not trust you to do the right thing”).

“Drive-By Moderation”

As moderators get pinged on a channel or are DMed to pay attention to an evolving situation, they go into the channel and with full force, attempt to dissolve the situation. The term “full-force” is used not to mean “excessive force”, but rather to mean they attempt to remedy the situation on the spot, at that time, and be done with it. That is what is euphemistically called “drive-by moderation”.

The problem with “drive-by” moderation is that most of the time, resident users are involved, so they try to employ diplomatic means to dissolve the situation. Which is fine and that’s what should be done.

Except, the majority of these calls, happen on a particular channel (HD) and with the same particular group of troublemaking users. Who are continuously given leeway and leniency at the expense of the counterparties that are in a frustrated state trying to defend themselves and stand their ground against the aggressors? And these words were very deliberately chosen, as in all these situations where the common denominator is the same troublemaking users, again and again, it is they who are the aggressors against users who were simply minding their own business and were verbally attacked without provocation.

One time a user posted their model of ranking heroes, another time another user asked a question that was the topic of intense debate, and a third time a user stated their own opinion on a matter related to leveling up heroes. All these were causes for quarrels and personal attacks by the same group of users. They’ve even asked moderators to ban the users that expressed a difference of opinion with the excuse that “they spread misinformation”.

These are all well-documented and recorded events, and in all instances, moderators were involved. One last of those instances left me dumbfounded by the fact that the Community Director himself, went out of his way in supporting those troublemaking users, to create an ad-hoc, impromptu new rule, that he pinned on HD:

You might wonder what’s new with this particular rule? The “threat element” states that a “Second time will be banned from the server”. This happened not two weeks ago, in a “drive-by moderation” where Bolon was pinged by the same group of troublemaking heroes that complained about “advertisement”. Advertisement of “third-party services” that were related to DFK. It is out of the scope of this post to further comment on how non-sensical and comic this whole set of interactions was. You can find ample in-depth analysis of how the DFK Team is hostile against builders, guilds, and sensible users in the following posts:

What merits mentioning though are a few things. First, the patronizing, demeaning and unprofessional way Bolon conducted himself. That tone isn’t fitting to be used on your colleagues, let alone on your investors, whom in this context, you have unquestionable, absolute power over.

Second, this angered, all bold, all caps, impromptu new rule, couldn’t and hasn’t lasted for more than a couple of days. After those two days, everyone, including the troublemaking users, is posting links to third-party websites. And it is only natural to share a useful resource when asked by a user or want to share your content as a content creator or a builder. You cannot go against that, it is human nature.

And finally, third, sharing of third-party DFK resources always happened on DFK’s discord, even by those troublemaking users. The difference was that the troublemaking members now decided that they didn’t like what they saw, so they created an environment of urgency and “self-righteousness” where those “advertising” need to be suppressed. And moderators were numerous times to “clean up” what they deemed “inappropriate”.

Declining State of DFK’s Discord

We have established how Moderators not only will not enforce any rule of decency, or mutual respect and create a safe space for everyone. Even when they attempt to remedy a situation, they will do it in a partial way employing double standards as to what is ok or not ok to do.

As I brought these issues to many moderators and knights I got treated with indifference, contempt, and in some cases offense. I eventually had to confront them with the reasons why the state of things is the way it is on DFK’s Discord.

The response I received from Bolon, the Director of Community was (sic):

I don’t control how members engage with one another and have never made the attempt to, beyond a base level.

So, if it’s not on the Director of Community’s job description to “control how members engage with one another”, it does make a whole lot of sense why DFK’s discord is the way it is: A free-for-all, fend-for-yourself, toxic environment.

And naturally, in this kind of environment, only a very certain kind of people can survive Those with thick skins and the actual toxic people who thrive in it.

Most DFK Moderators and Knights are very, very well aware of this problem. As they themselves, are members, and actively participate, in private discords where the most sensible and moderate users have fled, so they won’t have to deal with this kind of environment.

Now compound all the above the fact that moderators are no longer being paid to perform their duties, and you can easily draw your conclusions as to the declining state of DFK’s discord.

Moving Forward and Suggestions

The fact that DFK’s discord needs to uphold the very high ethical standards that DFK Administration holds itself as stated multiple times, is not a topic of debate or under question.

So at this point, it is worth assessing the situation. Take inventory, perform a retrospective and employ performance reviews:

  • What is the state of DFK’s Discord?
  • Is there any merit to what has been said in this post?
  • How did we get to this point?
  • Are DFK’s employees assigned to correct posts, according to their skill set, experience, and personality traits?
  • Have moderators trained adequately?
  • Do we know what training moderators mean?
  • What is the community management track record of the people responsible for community management?
  • How do we envision DFK Discord to be?

These are a few agenda items to get the conversation started on the next internal “Community meeting”.

This discourse forum comes with what we call in the industry “batteries included”. What this means is that you get to install the discourse open-source package, configure it a bit and you’re ready to go.

Part of the package is that you get sensible “community guidelines”, (guidelines is another nice way of saying CoC basically). This is a good starting place to put the flag-down for DFK’s discord Community Guidelines.

Next, you need to make sure those guidelines are enforced. You have to train your moderators to understand the direction, attitude, and tone you want to have. Train them to apply these without “drive-by”, forceful means, warnings, and threats, but rather with meaningful engagement and participation. Equip them with what they need to perform their duties, either that be better bots or less work-load outside of moderation (i.e. support & product QA).

Be active and close to the pulse of the discord community, reinforce what works and discard what doesn’t work. Make Discord a living organism, not a stale server that hasn’t seen any meaningful update since February of 2022.

While all these sound like “common sense” and I am at risk of sounding pedantic, there is art and experience behind every successful community. You can’t just “wing it” by acting bipolar, and then forcing everyone to be violently happy because we are all a happy family.

We are not a family and we are not all the same. We come from different walks of life and there are cultural barriers, language barriers, minorities, and all sorts of other differences between people that have to be embraced and welcomed.

Just because we cannot understand someone, that doesn’t mean they are nasty, malicious, or benevolent. They are just different.

It hurts me to have to ask that DFK Team needs to be impartial, fair, and trustworthy so they can create a safe and inclusive environment for everyone.

3 Likes

Hey Thanpolas,

Thank you for your extensive post. As I told you 12 hours ago, the build site is not a forum for community feedback. It’s purpose is to brainstorm and bring forward grant proposals and have them refined with the help of the community and the grant team.

Even though this is not the place, let me address some things of your post.

First, I wanna clear up some misconceptions you have about our moderator team:

Now compound all the above the fact that moderators are no longer being paid to perform their duties, and you can easily draw your conclusions as to the declining state of DFK’s discord.

While some of our moderators moved to a voluntarily position, many are still being paid - some are even working full-time and reimbursed accordingly.

  • Moderators are not empowered to take their own initiative when it comes to moderation.
  • There is a “stand-down” policy that does not allow Moderators to effectively moderate.
  • There are no “moderation or community policies” that moderators have to reinforce and steer the community to.
  • DFK Team has a very centralized, top-down chain of command.
  • Consequently, trust is eroded or non-existent in the relationships between DFK Admin and Moderators (i.e. “I do not trust you to do the right thing”).

This is not correct. Bolon and me fully trust our moderators, and always have. They are aware of our guidelines are enforcing them at their best judgement. Only in rare cases, when they aren’t sure what the best way to respond to something is, or if they think a question justifies a more official response, they consult with us - but most of the times they are free to act on their best judgement of the situation.

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#general

Every Discord server has their own ecosystems. For example within #general an own community developed around “running gags” that developed with the project itself. Yes, and to those belong Kirby feet, and Bloaterball, and Boomer Hour, and Pizza Pineapple, and whatsonot. It’s the identity of the channel, and rightfully so. We have dedicated channels for beginners #serendale-discussion, #serendale-beginners-help, #serendale-support and their counterparts for Crystalvale.

Even so, our very friendly and well experienced regulars in #general help out everyone, even between the memes. Go ahead, create an alt account and give it a try.

==================================

“Take No Action Policy”

Yes, we purposely decided not to ban any fudders during the fud attack back end of April, and we still stand by that call. We banned every user that broke our rules (for example personal attacks, spam etc.) or those that simply screamed “RUG!!” without any arguments.

And the reason is simple. We wanted to openly address any concers as we did. If we would have banned any user addressing any concerns, those users would have moved to other channels: guilds Discords, Twitter etc. which would make it so much more harder for the team to address things and would have made the situation a lot worse.

It took 2 days for the DFK Team to realize the damage that was happening.

This is also not true, we were aware of the situation from the very start, but we deliberately decided to have an open discussion, and we still stand by that call.

==================================

Closing remarks

I’d like to remind you once again, that this is the grant site, and not a feedback forum. Posting here will only distract from the purpose of this site and may not reach the audience you are trying to reach.

Furthermore I’d like to ask you to not base your feedback on assumptions like “Discord is abandoned”, “mods aren’t paid anymore”, “mods have no authority and it’s a top-down hierarchy”, “channels are being unmoderated” etc. Basing your feedback on unverified information will just end up weaking your points - so does presending them in a polemic matter.

Just because you don’t disagree with how the community is managed, doesn’t mean it’s wrong or that there are other opinions. Many decisions are being discussed internally and we try to do what is best for the community and best for the project. And I feel that many users think the same, that we have a very strong and unique community and culture in our Discord, and that it’s an intergral part of this community, with all it’s facets.

2 Likes

Why is it that when you make a series of good points, it’s always surrounded by so many bad or inaccurate ones? I worry that this sandwiching effect is a deliberate tactic to give credence to some of your less accurate notions.

Saying things like “DFK’s Discord is Abandoned” is wholly inaccurate. Everyone has their own opinion as to how the Discord is at present, but it’s demonstrably untrue that it has been abandoned. Moderators and admin are all active in the channels whether you approve of their interaction or not. Using sensationalist language to illustrate a point you’re trying to make is in no way nearly as constructive as the tone of your post suggests that it ought to be.

Your comments about there being “70k bots” is also absolutely unverifiable. It fails to take into consideration people who are actually offline or people who keep themselves set to offline permanently. Whilst there may well be some bot accounts in amongst them, any accounts that have Discord-level bans are removed from all servers anyway.

Arguing the other way, you also didn’t mention the number of alt-accounts that likely make up these numbers. People setting up new logins to participate in the giveaways and such. But, the problem is, how would you police that? What are the differences between somebody’s main account and their second account? And I don’t think there is any real way to tell the difference between an “alt” account that gets ditched when not being used to abuse giveaways, and somebody who signed up to Discord but decided it wasn’t for them and deleted the app without deleting their account.

The biggest point of all of this is that - why do we care? Why does it even matter that there are 70k accounts that appear offline? Surely the only way to manage a Discord server is to focus on the active users and how best to serve them as ultimately, having accounts on the server not appearing online does absolutely no harm or damage to anyone.

“DFK Discord is Unmoderated”

Yeah, we all spend a lot of time on the Discord. We all have stake in the game and, despite any differences that there may be between us all, the vast majority of us only want what’s best for DFK. That’s a given.

But, let’s talk about your Code of Conduct for a second. A set of rules is exactly the same as a code of conduct, you just don’t sound like a pretentious twat when you call it “server rules”. To the players, the Discord is primarily a social environment - you can’t start making people feel like they’re employees bound by strict terms over how they interact. As long as people are being respectful, like you highlighted, that’s all you can really ask of people. You can’t tell people what to say to one another, or how to react to the conversations that take place - the idea of making the Discord a strict environment sounds positively Orwellian.

You speak throughout about “drive-by moderation” and in some regards there is some foundation to this. With moderators being fewer in numbers now, having the same kind of channel coverage is harder now than it was a month ago. And it’s no longer a paid position. So given that there are fewer moderators now and they’re helping purely for the good of the project, I think we can forgive them for not being glued to their screens for an average of 16 hours per day. For the times when Moderators aren’t around, and aren’t watching the channel, the fact that there’s almost always somebody who will still respond to a @mod/knight ping is a great thing.

This will then cover the enforcement of server rules, whereby they will take a moment to analyse the situation and make a determination as to the best course of action. What more could you ask for? If people are tagging the mods when it is perceived action needs to be taken, what does it matter if they’re balls deep in active conversation on the Discord when it happens? Surely the important thing is that issues are addressed, not how chatty they are?

For a lot of people, it is sometimes perceived that the moderators don’t take strong enough action in some instances. Whilst there might not be a super strict “Code of Conduct” for the average user, there are clearly a set of Operating Procedures that the mods and admin work to. Firstly, they are almost exclusively non-confrontational with people. The level of professionalism they show by way of customer service is entirely admirable. The patience they show can even be infuriating at times. Secondly, their responses are usually proportionate to the transgressions they’re responding to. They are simply not a “ban first and ask questions later” kind of team. But, from a business perspective, would you even want that? Surely there’d be bigger backlash from the wider community if moderators became more heavy-handed than the approach they take previously. Even with the high levels of tolerance demonstrated under current practices we still see ridiculous claims on Twitter, Reddit, Telegram and Facebook like “I/my friend was banned for asking simple questions”. And of course it’s bullshit, but can you even imagine how bad the public perception would be if mods actually started banning people for being a bit of a dick rather than try to resolve the issue first?

So that it doesn’t seem like I’m just out to disagree with everything you’ve said on principle, I’m also not saying that the Discord is perfect and that there are no areas in which it can be improved.

My biggest gripe with the Discord is the use of the True Hero role and the way it’s changed over time. Originally it was a “hey, you were here pretty early, have some acknowledgement”, then it was a “you’re a particularly helpful individual, have some acknowledgement” and now it’s a “you’re popular with the moderators, have some acknowledgement”. Which actually does support some observations you’ve made about #General in particular.

It’s almost a landing platform for new users. They come in, ask some questions, look for support. Sure, there are set channels for that but if you’re new to a Discord it might not be easy to navigate around. Some people are quite often new to Discord itself, rather than just the DFK Discord. And yeah, it’s becoming harder for people to have questions answered as the kind, and rate, of chat traffic in the channel means that questions get quickly burried.

I think it’s a little unfair to suggest that there’s a “large group of players” who are “devoted to” kirby feet. It’s almost like a social guild, much in the same way as Team Goose (who have far greater numbers) or Team Pineapple or any number of pretend social guilds. But, I’ll be honest, I really do hate Kirby Feet. I think that people joining the server shouldn’t be subjected to that, especially from moderators or admin. There’s nothing inherently wrong with Kirby Feet or a social guild built around it, but it makes a terrible first impression - especially with how many memes are spammed. I have a suggestion, but I’ll save those for the end like you have.

I also think that you’re making out the problem to be bigger than it is. I agree that it could be improved, but for instance - whilst it’s harder for people to have questions answered, a lot of questions still get picked up. A lot of people are still directed to the appropriate channels (such as #serendale-support or #serendale-beginners-help). And despite the fact that there are a lot of True Heroes that have the role because their face fits, there are still a lot of True Heroes that go out of their way to help people with information, support and assistance.

In your "‘Hero Discussion’ section you mention “some users acting as moderators”. So, that’s a difficult one as, spending less time in HD/PD than I do in General, I haven’t seen as many instances of this as you might. But, for the time I do spend in the different channels in Discord, including General, I see regular users (TH or otherwise) take the initiative to remind people about server rules. So, no shilling, try to be respectful, not to ask how much a hero should be worth etc. This isn’t the same as enforcing the rules, but it doesn’t take a moderator to offer a friendly reminder as to what the rules might be in each instance.

I also think that whilst you offer a lot to the community, you form part of the problem in Hero Discussion. For instance, you made such a MASSIVE issue about links and third party tools that people had to, for a while, stop sharing free-to-use third party resources just because you were upset that you were told not to shill your paid service. And my goodness was it just not the most frustrating thing. Bolon made a couple of posts in quick succession to clarify the rules of the Discord and rather than just take the hit on the chin, you then turned it into a massive channel-wide issue that affected everyone else. You quoted half of a point Bolon was making and used it to bully the moderators into enforcing rules that didn’t exist. All because you were told to stop advertising your paid service in HD. Anyone can take fragments of an argument out of context and use it to reinforce a point that was never being made, but I don’t understand how you can on the one hand claim to be acting in everyone’s best interests whilst at the same time being so demonstrably selfish.

You do raise a good point about tribalism within the Discord, though. It definitely exists - the HD crowd and the PD crowd definitely seem to, on some level, take their preferred channel as part of their inherent identity within the DFK Discord community. But, I really don’t know what can be done about that - people who share common interests will naturally gravitate towards others of similar interests. People who enjoy predominantly chatting about heroes will hang in HD and people who prefer chatting about tokenomics and the economy will hang out in PD. People who enjoy talking bollocks, like I do, will hang out in General.

I would ask though, you reference “acts of disparagement, sexism, hate speech, and even bigotry” that haven’t been addressed to your satisfaction. Could you provide evidence of such instances and then state how you would have handled those particular situations? Because acts of disparagement, sexism, hate speech, and even bigotry do not belong on the Discord, but making wild unsubstantiated claims that it goes on unaddressed is neither constructive or helpful.

I also agree in large with your take on PD. It got a particularly bad rep during the Great Fudding, but it’s curious that you use that example of moderating going wrong. I would argue the opposite, in fact. First, there were moderators active and trying to control that situation throughout the first night, or the ‘ambush’. It did take a moment or two for tan official response though and for most part the team seemed rather quiet on the matter, which wasn’t of great comfort at the time. But, given the claims that were being made and the nature of the attack, it was absolutely paramount that as an organisation an official response was drawn up and issued so that the entire team could be singing from the same hymn sheet. If you noticed the timing, as soon as an official response was made to the nonsense being thrown about, it was like the mods, devs and admins all came alive at once and the response was decisive and thorough. I’m not sure the situation could have been handled much better by the team, either during the event or subsequent to it.

But, there does indeed still seem to be a lot of perceived negativity surrounding the PD channels to a point where it’s often joked about in other areas of the discord as somewhere best not ventured. This isn’t meant as a sincere warning to avoid, merely an acknowledgement of this perceived bias. But, having spent some time in the channel, it’s a reputation that’s absolutely undeserved. The regular users are pragmatic about the current situation and are patient with people who share opinions that seemingly go against the consensus. There are still some people who swing by from time to time to fud in any one of the channels, but it’s no longer the case that PD is a hotbed of discontent. In fact, I’d go so far as to say the moderators are the primary reason that the channel has been turned around.

DFK as an organisation though still does need to be very careful that it can’t be perceived to be “claming down” on unpopular opinions though, or that will discredit the entire operation. And you’re right - Kujo does fantastic things on the Discord by way of moderating, but he’s by no means alone in the excellent execution of his duties.

When you say things like “It took 2 days for the DFK Team to realize the damage that was happening” is where you lose a great deal of credibility in your arguments. To see no action and assume this is because the team wasn’t aware of what was happening is ludicrous. In any industry, if defamatory claims or accusations are being made then the company’s first responsibility is to investigate the nature of the attacks and composing an appropriate response. It certainly didn’t take two days for this to happen, either. It kicked off late at night and was addressed officially the next day. It did take a further day and a bit before the worst of the attacks wore off, but that’s only because it took a while for the attacks to be refuted and proven untrue. Negativity unfortunately travels a lot faster than positivity ever will and it took a while to seal the dam.

Based on these events and in combination with what is happening on the three biggest channels, we can safely draw a few conclusions:

  • Moderators are not empowered to take their own initiative when it comes to moderation.
  • There is a “stand-down” policy that does not allow Moderators to effectively moderate.
  • There are no “moderation or community policies” that moderators have to reinforce and steer the community to.
  • DFK Team has a very centralized, top-down chain of command.
  • Consequently, trust is eroded or non-existent in the relationships between DFK Admin and Moderators (i.e. “I do not trust you to do the right thing”).

No, “we” can’t do anything. These are your observations and you can’t give them greater credibility by suggesting that everyone interprets things the same way as you do. In fact, the only thing I agree with is that “DFK Team has a top-down chain of command”. I mean, that’s literally what a chain of command is - what’s your point?!

And just for the record, criticising an admin for using bold text is just ridiculous. Especially when it happened in the middle of a storm that you personally had kicked up because you couldn’t get your own way about your bot service and being allowed to advertise it whenever and wherever you want. Posts on Discord are often formatted to give certain messages, or certain parts of messages, greater emphasis.

Like I said, you have some valid points in amongst everything that you’ve shared but because you surround it with so much nonsense and fiction it just makes the whole exercise redundant. Why you can’t just stick to being helpful rather than place yourself atop an altruistic throne built on lies I don’t know.

But, sure. We need more mods. And we need social channels that are guild-specific. But the nature of these suggestions don’t fit the purpose of this forum so I’ll submit them, like you should have, via the appropriate channels.

2 Likes

In summary the Kingdom Studios Team needs a forum like this one to interact with the community.

Discord is an intermediate platform and is not a solution to addressing community questions, comments and concerns.

Example:

-AMA’s
Kingdom Studios Answers some questions in the hour time frame.
Follow up is some communication in discord afterwards.

Summary: This does not allow for more community involvement on a large scale.

Please add threads to this existing platform on the build website and make it the Official DFK Forum add it to the defikingdoms home page next to the team information and call it a day. Have this new forum moderated.

Edit:

This will solve the issue with discord trying to be used for a base of operations to host information when it its a platform for basic communication and not for large scale dissemination or propagation

1 Like

Welcome to Discourse!

Where else should we discuss community brainstorming?

V/R

Bless

@Stronghold Thank you for your long and thoughtful post. While everyone is entitled to their opinions, the entire point I am trying to make is that we share and exchange them in a respectful manner and a safe environment.

There is evident anger in your post that doesn’t help your points get through or honor you as a person when you engage in personal attacks and name calling.

If I understand what you wrote correctly, we are in agreement about the topics, you just want to express them in your own way.

Your understanding on the third-party links issue is highly misguided. I am confused why you chose this particular topic to expand on. I’d expect you, personally, to recuse yourself from commenting on that topic. Considering you’ve been pushing hard on your service on any change you get, including having your service on your nickname.

If a DFK Service is premium or not, is not a criterion upon which the existing rules refer to, it’s all third-party services. Trying to take the high-ground on this is unfortunate to say the least. There are many premium services shared by other developers. As well as shared by users in their effort to help other users.

And at the end of the day this isn’t an issue of who has done it more or less, as I explain on my post it happens. Someone asks a question and the response is to send them to dfkAnalytics, or DFKing or DFKAdventures or Difky. What is wrong with that? Why am I targeted and attacked in particular? How do I do it differently than anyone else is doing it?

First evidence I will provide is your entire post. Read it again and count the times you are attacking me personally than addressing the merits of the arguments I am making.

Second, all evidence is at the hands of moderators. I said I’ve raised these issues numerous times. This happened with tangible and ample evidence.

When someone calls you a “proud boy”, we are at a very bad place.

@sashei thank you for creating an account and participating. This is the first time a member outside of Pianoman or Sunbear has engaged in the numerous feedback related topics (as enumerated on my original post).

I appreciate your response and would love to hear your thoughts on all of the topics that were touched on, namely, the situation about the multiple offenders and the lack of a respectful, safe-space for everyone on discord, and in particular on HD.

So you are now pretending like you didn’t campaign against people being able to post any links at all, including to services such as DFK Analytics in the wake of your reprimand? Yeak, okay. The fact that you bullied a moderator into enforcing rules that didn’t exist is what you did differently to other people.

I get nothing back for my website. I haven’t even posted a tipjar 0x, despite being told I should. When I share links, it isn’t for self promotion, it’s to inform and educate people. The key difference is that you created a service designed specifically to capitalise on people’s needs in order to make money. There’s nothing wrong with doing that, I’m sure a lot of people are very happy with the bots you’ve created, but when you’re told to stop sharing links to a subscription only service outside of #shill-station or degen dungeon it’s because you’re doing something wrong and it’s wholly different to saying ‘here’s the information you need on a website’. Me having a website doesn’t prevent me from identifying when somebody is acting in a dishonest fashion.

My issue comes from your position of absolute hipocrisy - you pertain to be highlighting issues whilst both inaccurately representing what the issues actually are and being one of the issues yourself.

I’m sorry if you feel like I’m attacking you. One of your problems is that you’ve created a cushion of yes men around you so that you’re of the false impression your opinions represent that of the majority. It’s important to take issue with the things you’re saying when the things you’re saying are utter nonsense and demonstrably untrue. And how can you in good conscience attack, demean and undermine the efforts of the moderating and admin team on the Discord and yet feel that you personally are above criticism?

I’ve address multiple points within your post, both in agreement and disagreement. If you couldn’t see this because you instead focused on the times where I called you out for ridiculous comments, then it’s not I that needs to re-read my post.

You are, in actuality, a bully. Just because you do it by hiding behind a thinly veiled disguise of good intentions doesn’t mean that nobody will stand up to you.

And I am also angry that you would derail the conversation on the build forum to push your own personal agenda on unrelated matters.

I agree, there does need to be a forum for conversations like this so there isn’t any overlap. Or even one big forum with subsections for specific conversations, such as the Kingdom building program.

They’ve said they’re looking at options but I don’t know where they are with any of them?

1 Like

No matter the diverse opinions here, I think it’s agreed by everyone that a more organized place to voice opinions is needed. It has definitely taken much too long. All the fiddling around with maybe usevoice, maybe this or that and not having any concrete plans only leads to frustration and dfk members taking out frustrations on each other

3 Likes

Would it be possible to put a link in announcements for the website above so we have more clarity on where to post feedback and where to post other concepts, feedback.

I understand this website is Development related and now with the community feedback forum there shouldn’t be much issue with overlap.

Although having a post on announcements will tell users that more directly.

V/R

Bless